Michelle Schwegmann and Josh Hooten, Eat Like You Give A Damn



Part 1: Michelle Schwegmann and Josh Hooten, Eat Like You Give A Damn
OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERAJosh Hooten and Michelle Schwegmann are the co-owners of The Herbivore Clothing Company, a vegan clothing, cookbook and lifestyle store in Portland, Oregon’s own Vegan Mini-Mall, and online at herbivoreclothing.com. Founded in 2002, Herbivore makes clothing and accessories for people who like to fashionably proclaim their compassionate beliefs. Herbivore has published several books, including Yellow Rose Recipes and The Vegan Pregnancy Survival Guide. Josh and Michelle’s book, Eat Like You Give a Damn, is a cookbook and guide for new ethical vegans. It is named for the popular slogan they’ve had for years, and was named the readers choice Favorite Cookbook by VegNews Magazine in 2015. Josh and Michelle are parents to ten-year-old Ruby, whose daily vegan lunch you can see via the hashtag #rubybirdslunch.

Part II: Caryn Hartglass, Beans and Bones
Caryn discusses the study: Legumes and meat analogues consumption are associated with hip fracture risk independently of meat intake among Caucasian men and women: the Adventist Health Study-2.; traveling to Chicago, Argo Tea and improvements in some hospital menus.


Caryn Hartglass: Hey everybody, I’m Caryn Hartglass, you’re listening to It’s All About Food and here we are, tuning in love, tune in love. I started that last week and I’m just going to keep it going because I love it. Tune in live, tune in love that’s what we do during this hour and we need a lot more love in this world, I think what we all need of, how does it go? What’s the world need now that’s the only thing that there’s too little of. Well we’re going to do a little more of it during this hour just like sharing the love and putting the love out because it feels good and I think we can be better as a society and a species when we take care of each other, when we serve each other and when we put out love because there’s a lot of hate going around and we got to combat that. We’ve got to I don’t want to use a battle term but we need to spread it around. So for those of you who are joining in for the first time or don’t know very much about this program. I wanted to just give you a little background on me and the show it’s been a little over six and a half years that It’s All About Food has been on progressive radio network and I’m really grateful for all the progressive radio network folks that make these programs possible and we’re here promoting a plant based healthy vegan diet and we’re going to be talking a lot about that today and I’m the founder of a non-profit organization called Responsible Eating and Living. We’re a multimedia organization and we have so much information on our website it’s just overwhelming to me, I’m always thinking about how can I present this information in a better way, if we keep putting more things up there, there are recipes and videos and food shows and of course all of the It’s All About Food programs from the last six and a half years are archived on the website most with transcripts because I have these fabulous volunteers who transcribe these programs, thank you very much, sending love out to my transcribers and one of the things that I really have fun doing, I don’t know if your familiar with analytics of websites but I use Google analytics. It can tell you what your most popular pages are and how many people are visiting and where they’re visiting from, don’t worry it doesn’t say who you are, it just gives you a general feeling and I really get a little warm and cozy when I know there are people visiting the site and I see them listening to or I see you listening to interviews from a few years back. Some that I’ve forgotten about and I’m happy to remember and I’m just glad that we have this digital library available for free for anyone who wants to find out all that needs to be found out about the healthy plant based lifestyle that we’re promoting here and think more about all of that later on in the program. Okay right now I want to bring on my guests Michelle Schwegmann and Josh Hooten. They are co-owners of the Herbivore Clothing Company a vegan clothing cookbook and lifestyle store in Portland Oregon and they’re own vegan mini mall and they’re also online at herbivoreclothing.com they were founded in 2002 and Herbivore makes clothing and accessories for people who like to fashionably proclaim their compassionate beliefs Herbivore has published several books including yellow rose recipes and the vegan pregnancy survival guide. Josh and Michelle’s book Eat Like You Give A Damn is the cookbook and guide for new ethical vegans it is named for the popular slogan they’ve had for years and was named the reader’s choice favorite cookbook by veg news magazine in 2015 and Josh and Michelle are parents to 10 year old ruby who’s daily vegan lunch you can see via the #rubybirdslunch. Hey Michelle and Josh welcome to It’s All About Food.

Michelle Schwegmann: Thank you, it’s good to be here.

Caryn Hartglass: Good I hear Michelle. Josh are you there to?

Josh Hooten: I’m here, Hi.

Caryn Hartglass: Oh okat we’re having a party.

Michelle Schwegmann: We are.

Caryn Hartglass: Thank you for joining me and for writing this lovely book Eat Like You Give a Damn.

Michelle Schwegmann: Oh thank you.

Josh Hooten: Thanks.

Caryn Hartglass: Yeah it’s a very fun book, now it says on the front cover recipes for the new ethical vegan, what about for the old ethical vegan like me, can I use these recipes?

Michelle Schwegmann: You know it’s really for anyone, it doesn’t only have to be for ethical vegans but we wanted to just put that out there, that that’s our approach. We’re vegan because we love animals, we don’t want to consume them and we know that we don’t need to and we want to make it ok to talk about the ethical aspect of veganism. Lots of people talk about the health aspect and we wanted to talk about the animals because that’s why we do what we do.

Caryn Hartglass: Well talking about the animals is probably the most uncomfortable part of the conversation. When we talk about eating plants versus animals it makes people very squeamish and I know doing this for decades that the health aspect is probably the easiest way in because people are not exactly narcissistic but they’re concerned about themselves and taking care of themselves, so that’s like an approachable way but we really need to dig deep and talk more about animals.

Josh Hooten: Yeah I totally agree the health thing is wonderful it’s a great side benefit for us personally but um we’ve always felt like we’ve all known people who wanted meat and they were healthy so if you’re trying to get healthy that’s one thing if you’re in a health emergency situation and you’re doing this to because your doctor said terrible things were going to happen if you don’t that’s one thing but if you’re a healthy person and you eat meat our push is much more on the ethical and environmental side because that’s when you internalize those things that’s still narcissistically really good for you if you are helping the planet, you live on the planet, so doing the things for the planet is still in your best interests.

Caryn Hartglass: That’s an interesting point and I don’t think many people get that. That’s kind of crazy, I mean all the things that we do today are so destructive for the environment and we’re not connecting the dots very well or we don’t want to.

Michelle Schwegmann: I think that people don’t want to connect the dots because it’s uncomfortable like you said but what we’re trying to do is show that being vegan isn’t something that’s threatening or scary. It’s something that’s fun, it’s natural, it’s simple to do it’s just a matter of adopting a new set of habits and it’s ok to be compassionate, it’s ok to wear your heart on your sleeve and feel destroyed inside when you realize that everything you thought was true about what you eat was not true you know that’s how we both felt when we learned the information we did that made us choose to be vegan and so we want to be this friendly fun hand to hold and cooking partner in the kitchen and friend that can be there for you to help you along your journey and to show that it’s not a weird thing to be vegan and I think the world is seeing that so much more all the time, but this is our little slice of that pie and this is how we’ve been doing it for a long time, so that’s why we wrote the book.

Caryn Hartglass: Well the crazy thing is that people think what they’re doing today is normal and that it’s extreme to eat vegetables and not extreme to torture and slaughter billions of animals every year.

Michelle Schwegmann: That is true.

Caryn Hartglass: And we’re the scary ones, it’s crazy.

Michelle Schwegmann: And what we’re trying just to say is that in a sort of flip that on its head it’s like you know when you look at me and look at a picture of me and me and my husband and my daughter and I and my family, we don’t look like crazy weirdoes, we just are normal people who are vegan and we’re fun to be around you can invite us to your party, we’re going to invite you to our house and it’s not something that’s unapproachable, it’s very normal.

Josh Hooten: There’s lots of other social justice issues but people don’t get all weird about, like if I took a really hard line stance about women’s rights nobody’s going to have a stereotype ready for me, they’re mostly at least where I live are going to hear me out and understand and listen and care or if I was advocating for children, then let’s say something even more basic like if I was advocating for children to treated better around the world nobody would be like oh god this guy, his views are ridiculous, look how extreme he is, it’s not, it’s just your just extending that circle of compassion to a different species, that’s not strange but people think that way and they react that way because they have to reflect on that and they have to feel like and obviously people feel guilty. I have felt guilty about animal stuff when I was not vegan and one day I had to kind of sit myself down and sort of look at why I felt that way and it was because I didn’t think animals should be treated badly and tortured and killed and eaten. I didn’t think that that should happen but I was complicit so that’s where my push back was coming from personally and when I got my behaviors in line with my ethics everything cleared up it was amazing, it was a great feeling.

Caryn Hartglass: Well I love the way the book opens up with the introduction by an anonymous individual who did some undercover investigative work in Iowa in a pig factory farm.

Michelle Schwegmann: Yes.

Caryn Hartglass: It wasn’t many pages but it was intense reading and an interesting way to open a cookbook.

Michelle Schwegmann: But that sort of sets the stage for the reason, which is what that piece is called which is what we’ve been talking about is that yes you know there’s delicious in here and yummy treats and decadent things and healthy things and we’re going to get to that but the reason are even here the reason that anyone is interested in anything in Josh or I have to say or the recipes that we’ve written is because of animals and because of the way animals are treated and so here’s a little bit of information that we have that we’re privy to from an undercover investigator about and this is why we’re writing this book because this doesn’t have to happen anymore and we can all be part of making the world a better place for humans and animals and the environment by not eating animals anymore. It’s definitely a non-traditional way but we felt like it’s who we are it’s why we’re here and it’s the way we’ve done things and if people are interested in how we eat and how we live, then they’re going to get the whole picture.

Caryn Hartglass: So I don’t think we’re scary at all and I think vegans for the most part tend to be phenomenal partiers, really big foodies, loving all kinds of food and for most have a really good sense of humor you kind of have to, to acknowledge what’s going on in this world and still move forward you have to have a good sense of humor so I wanted to talk about when you first got started with Herbivore one of the slogans you had on one of your t-shirts that you created was praise seitan.

Josh Hooten: Yeah that was a number of years ago and you know obviously it was a play on words and not everybody still even today gets it but it’s seitan is made from wheat protein and it’s used a lot for kind of fake meat dishes you can add on flavor whatever you want, it’s a classic you can do anything to it, you can make ribs, you can make burgers, you can make sandwiches, you can make you know whatever you want and it just happens to be called seitan, so it’s just sitting there waiting to be made fun of. I grew up in punk rock and heavy metal circles and it was just kind of easy fun joke to make to appeal to other vegans, back then there was a real stereotype about vegans being all kind of earthy crunchy hippy types and we love them but that’s not who I am and that’s not who most of my friends are so we we’re making clothes and still are for a variety of people but one of the main people we’re making designs for is ourselves because we know that we are a lot like our customers and so that’s kind of where that design came from.

Caryn Hartglass: And the next thing Michelle said yeah early on you said you were a cheese French fry and bagel vegetarian and I wanted to say that you know it’s wonderful when people decide to give up meat but that is actually one of the biggest dangers to rely on white flour food, high starchy food and cheese. It’s really a recipe for so many illnesses and I know we’re not focusing on health here but it’s important to say, I had a very close friend who ended up being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and fortunately she got healthy and went vegan and never looked back and doesn’t have a problem. This recipe, high starch white flour food and cheese is linked to so many devastating chronic diseases.

Michelle Schwegmann: Yeah and that’s why I didn’t stay that kind of a vegetarian.

Caryn Hartglass: I’m glad, but it’s so easy.

Michelle Schwegmann: If you think about it it’s what a lot of people eat you know when they start eating that way when they’re kids and they continue to eat that way through their entire adult life and it isn’t just the involvement, it is you know, it is what a lot of people do so when I was that kind of vegetarian it didn’t stick with me and then you know I went back to eating animal products that was when I was in high school and when I did it the second time I was an adult and I still didn’t know much about nutrition but I knew that that wasn’t a good idea so at that point I had learnt to love salad a little bit more, I guess, I will say I still consider myself a cheese lover and I partake in all kinds of wonderful cheeses they just happen to made from plants these days, whether it’s cashew cheese or coconut milk cheese or something that’s made from tofu. We eat a lot of cheese in a vegan way and we definitely are not missing out on anything so it’s pretty nice to still be that way but just kind of switch the angle a little bit.

Caryn Hartglass: Not only are you not missing out but looking at your cookbook it’s clear that you’re having a great party with food.

Michelle Schwegmann: We eat a lot of really good food, we love to eat and it’s something that I’ve always loved to do so when we went vegan or when I went vegan it was just a matter, it truly has opened up the world of food in such a different way then it did when I ate animals because there’s just your more interested. I’m more interested in different cuisines from other cultures or different cooking techniques and it’s so much fun, I think so much more creative than like I’m going to put some rub on this meat. I don’t even know how to fake being a meat eater anymore, kind of sad.

Caryn Hartglass: You both mentioned that diet from New America by John Robbins had a great influence on you and I love John. I’m fortunate to have him as a close friend and I work with him still with his food revolution network but what’s amazing about that book I’ve found is how many people have read it and like you have gone on to continue to share the message in your own way.

Josh Hooten: Yeah well the thing I love about his writing is about his speaking, you can like him you cannot like him, it doesn’t make any difference, he tells you what’s what in the world and there’s just no denying it like when I read that book I was vegetarian and I was just trying to figure out why I was vegetarian. I had been vegetarian kind of for social reasons and I was like you know I should probably figure out, I should probably learn more about these issues about why I don’t eat animals. I went, oh here’s a book I’ll read, I was reading it and I was laying in my bed in Chicago in 1999 and I was laying there and I was reading about eggs and his tone, it’s not just mental but he’s not soft selling it either, he’s just tells you what is going on and I was very apt to believe what he was saying, he wasn’t telling me to do anything, he was just saying this is what the world is like and if you partake in this this is what you’re complicit in and I knew like I’m laying there in my bed and I’m reading the book and I read about eggs and I laid it there on chest and I was like well now I’m vegan and I was not thrilled about that because I didn’t know how to be vegan. I wasn’t even a very good vegetarian but I couldn’t un ring that bell you know, I couldn’t unread what I just read and it had a lot to do with the way it was presented to me. I had vegan friends at the time and I had seen pamphlets and other people talk about animals but it didn’t sink in until I read it from him and it made a big difference to me.

Caryn Hartglass: Well Josh I think that’s because you really do give a damn.

Josh Hooten: Yes that is true

Caryn Hartglass: And I wish everyone did so one more question before we start getting to the good stuff the food you have a great list of like an FAQ section where answers you have answers to questions that people always ask, they’ve been asking them for decades they’ll probably continue to ask and for centuries and I wanted to highlight my favorite one which was what would happen to all the cows and pigs if we didn’t eat them and I wanted to say what is amazing about this question is last year I was invited to speak to 250 cattle producers about climate change and animal agriculture and I was on a panel and when we were all done this was one of questions that these cattle producers asked me. What will happen? These are the ones who do the artificial insemination; these are the ones who breed and they asked me, how incredible is that.

Josh Hooten: How did you answer?

Caryn Hartglass: I said just stop the artificial insemination stop making stop breeding them and they were rolling their eyes and oh my god it was, I was glad I got out of there alive but I liked to say that they liked me, so it was a pretty interesting.

Michelle Schwegmann: I hope they listened to what you said.

Caryn Hartglass: I really think I planted some seeds but like I’ve said a number of times on this program I think they’re very scared and don’t know what else that they can do. It’s been in their lives for generations and when you don’t know how else you could feed your family you don’t want to think about it.

Josh Hooten: True yes.

Michelle Schwegmann: Like a kitten hide your eyes and nobody can see you.

Caryn Hartglass: Right all right let’s get to some of the wonderful things in your book, you have a great list about more than 50 ingredients of things you can put on a salad. People have such a closed minded view of a salad.

Michelle Schwegmann: There will be no closed minded views of salads in our world because you everyone’s I can’t eat salad all the time but it’s like you know there doesn’t even have to be lettuce in your salad, there doesn’t, reinvent it for yourself, so that’s not an exhaustive list by any means.

Caryn Hartglass: I know there’s 50 ingredients and I just quickly scanned it and I saw ok you put apples and you put raisins but there’s like a gazillion other fruits that you could put on your salad mangoes and blueberries etcetera, party on the greens, yeah that’s a good list and a very good point so thank you for that now we do a lot of cooking my partner Gary and we post a lot of recipes so we’re always looking to discover something new and I love the crushed and crispy potatoes.

Michelle Schwegmann: We had those last night for dinner.

Caryn Hartglass: I’ve never crushed my potatoes like that.

Michelle Schwegmann: It’s like it truly is like a dream, it’s like a baked potato and a French fry all at once and you don’t have to use a lot of oil if you’re looking out for that and you can go crazy and put cheese on top if you want or sour cream but we usually just like dip it in ketchup or eat it plain and they’re so great with a little salt pepper and olive oil on top and it takes a little bit of time but on a cold fall evening like we had last night here in Portland it’s great, the house smells amazing and it’s all warm and cozy by the time you’re eating dinner.

Caryn Hartglass: We make a lot of baked fries, either sweet potato fries or baked white potato fries, you know cut them up like French fries and then put them in the oven and bake them and they’re great but next time.

Michelle Schwegmann: This is so much easier and you get that fun pleasure of just squishing it I don’t know I like that part of it.

Caryn Hartglass: You’re a potato girl.

Michelle Schwegmann: Yes and I’ll flatten a potato.

Caryn Hartglass: And then mask roots which you include turnips and parsnips which I don’t think get enough press in today’s modern world of food they might have some time ago and I knew that use turnips and parsnips in different cultures in Europe and other places but most people I don’t even think they know what they are but they lend so much flavor.

Michelle Schwegmann: And it’s good to have variety and we do that all the time with just make a bunch of different root vegetables and either mash them like we do in that recipe or just simply roast them but it’s nice to have something different because in America I think French fries are the most commonly eaten vegetable.

Caryn Hartglass: With the other vegetable ketchup right.

Michelle Schwegmann: Exactly, it’s another one of my favorites but this way you get a little bit of variety and a little bit more flavor and it’s not going to hurt you to try something new and you never know parsnips are beautiful they’re just like white carrots.

Caryn Hartglass: They’re lovely in all soups they give really lovely depth and dimension and.

Michelle Schwegmann: They do.

Caryn Hartglass: Just yeah take it from a vegan turn on to parsnips and turnips don’t be afraid.

Michelle Schwegmann: We know our vegies.

Caryn Hartglass: Yeah and then the winner ok just because I’ve never seen it before and it’s genius is the ginger chili broccoli stalks.

Michelle Schwegmann: Because how many broccoli stalks do you have just withering away in your crisper right.

Caryn Hartglass: Yeah now I have to admit that I make a lot of green juice and when I have broccoli stalks I just cram them in the juicer and they become juice but this is a good one

Michelle Schwegmann: I think it’s a great recipe because we always have a ton of broccoli stalks sitting around so we’ll either make this or we’ll use the broccoli stalks instead of celery in like a soup or something but this way it’s a whole meal in itself and you’re like wow this is normally something I would put in the compost and look at how delicious, kind of like you’re getting take out.

Caryn Hartglass: Now there’s a whole movement now about not wasting food and I’m very amused by it because decades ago in the olden days at home and in restaurants nobody wasted anything and in restaurants they knew how to not waste anything they just made big piles of stock but somehow they’ve forgotten and now it’s kind of a trendy thing to have a dinner made of wasted vegetables but you can certainly enjoy these broccoli stalks. I have to confess I probably made something just yesterday that I don’t recommend for anyone but I’m kind of enjoying it, so we eat a lot of greens here and for our salads and greens we remove the stalks and the stalks kind of pile up in the crisper in the refrigerator until I make my weekly green juice and I make a weeks’ worth and then I freeze them. I wasn’t going to be making green juice because I had plenty and there was this giant pile of stalks and I thought what am I going to do with them so I thought I’d make a big smoothie out of them and it was a major event just to grind these stalks up even in my Vitamix and then I add flavor with peanut butter and coco powder and it wasn’t very sweet but I froze half of it because I can’t waste this stuff and I’ve been slowly chewing on this I’m not even calling it a smoothie I’m calling it a sludgy.

Michelle Schwegmann: We have a phrase for that you say is it good and Josh will ask me and I’ll be like I can choke it down.

Caryn Hartglass: You can’t you have to chew this thing it’s like intense dose of fiber. All right the last recipe I want to mention, now people have to know that vegans are foodies we love our food and we love our treats and because we’re eating nutritious food, plant food which have all the things like phytochemicals and fiber and all the good things you don’t get in animal foods. We’re allowed to eat our desert and not be guilty about it and you’ve got a cappuccino orange chocolate chip cookie, how good is that.

Michelle Schwegmann: It’s amazing and I have to admit that is a recipe that came from a friend of mine who is a fellow Portlandean and a fellow cookbook author named Julie Hassen and because I needed help with the desert section of the book because I’m one of the weird people in the world that doesn’t really have a sweet tooth so give me a loaf of bread and some olive oil and I’m happy that’s my dessert. So I asked a couple of friends that are excellent bakers and that she gave me a recipe that’s very similar to that one I simplified it a little bit but it is extraordinary and when I gave one of the cookies to my neighbor she took a bite of it and her eyes popped out of her head and she said this is going to be worth the price of the book alone.

Caryn Hartglass: I can’t wait to try them it just sounded so good I’m not a big coffee drinker but I love the flavor of coffee in sweets

Michelle Schwegmann: It’s just enough it goes with all of the other ingredients in such a way you miss it if it’s not there but it’s not overwhelming at all so it’s really a great recipe, we love them.

Caryn Hartglass: Can I keep you a few minutes longer and ask you a few more questions or are you in a hurry.

Michelle Schwegmann: We’ve got a few more moments.

Caryn Hartglass: Ok good. So you have a daughter, she’s ten years old.

Michelle Schwegmann: Yes.

Caryn Hartglass: And what’s it like for you Ruby.

Michelle Schwegmann: You know Ruby loves to eat, she’s like her Mom and Dad so you know I think we have it a little bit easier than people that have more picky kids but we like to think that it’s because we’ve always given her such variety. She’s has always been willing to try something at least once and we allow her to not like things like for example she does not like spinach ok you don’t have to eat spinach she loves kale, she loves lettuce. So I’m not going to force the kid to eat spinach, so with her it’s been pretty fun and we’ve always had cooking bees a family event you’re usually hanging out around the kitchen in our house and she loves to make pancakes and she loves to help in the kitchen. So I just encourage people to, don’t give up on your kids and allow them to have likes and dislikes and if they see you eating a wide variety of foods and you are a healthy person and you put good things in your body, strong foods and treat foods things have different meanings but they’ll eventually have good variety and good diet themselves, so she’s fun to feed.

Caryn Hartglass: Was she raised vegan from birth?

Michelle Schwegmann: Yes I was vegan when I was pregnant so she’s never known anything different.

Caryn Hartglass: Beautiful.

Michelle Schwegmann: So it’s just a wonderful it’s lovely for us now because it’s just who she is it’s part of her person so she doesn’t feel peer pressure or feel like she’s missing out because she’s not missing out on anything and we do make sure that she isn’t missing out at things like parties and stuff like that which are important for kids they want to have a cupcake to.

Caryn Hartglass: Does she like to preach is she a future activist.

Michelle Schwegmann: She definitely has times when she’s like that and it’s hard for her to express I think sometimes because she doesn’t understand why people eat animals, when she knows it’s not necessary, it’s kind of confusing to her.

Caryn Hartglass: Me too.

Michelle Schwegmann: Yeah and she’s very in touch with that. Only one time, thankfully have we ever seen a truck on the highway that had a lot of chickens on there way obviously to a slaughterhouse and she was so upset by it she was like Mum call the police call the police turn them in, they can’t do that, it’s not right and I was like oh gosh wouldn’t it be great if we could call someone and say these people are breaking the law but it’s hard to explain those kind of realities but I think it helps her have a solid foundation for why she believes what she believes because she knows the truth.

Caryn Hartglass: She hasn’t been made numb.

Michelle Schwegmann: No she has definitely not been made numb.

Caryn Hartglass: Lovely, ok well one more thing I want to direct people over to herbivoreclothing.com where you’ve got all kinds of fun things what are the most popular items on your herbivore clothing website.

Josh Hooten: Let’s see well we do our own designs and the most popular ones that we’ve got going right now we just did a new one that came out a couple of day’s ago that is a orca whale and it says set them free and it’s very clearly about SeaWorld and captive animals that we put in small little enclosures for our own entertainment we obviously think that’s very wrong and it’s this orca that’s kind of jumping and it’s very festive and it’s meant to look very alive and free we always try to focus on the positive side of things or positive outcomes as opposed to depressing people but that was a very popular one we have one that we call the good luck design which was a design we did a few years ago that is just an elephant and it says herbivore with kind of a decorative surrounding and that one is just about the largest land mammal is a herbivore that one’s always popular we have that one on a few different garments, yeah those are the two that I think right now are the hits right now.

Caryn Hartglass: Very good well Josh and Michelle thank you for joining me on It’s All About Food I can’t wait to get out to Portland some time and check out your store.

Michelle Schwegmann: Please come and visit.

Josh Hooten: Yeah please do.

Caryn Hartglass: And then eat because Portland is an awesome place to eat.

Josh Hooten: For sure.

Michelle Schwegmann: Indeed.

Caryn Hartglass: Yes okay be well and thank you for tuning into love with me today on It’s All About Food. Okay so that was Michelle and Josh, authors of the new cookbook Eat Like You Give a Damn and you can visit them at herbivoreclothing.com. Wasn’t that fun? Okay let’s take a couple minutes break and we’ll be right back.

Transcribed by Lara Allan, 1/21/2016

Transcription Part II:

Hello everybody, I’m back. This is Caryn Hartglass and you’re listening to It’s All About Food. So let’s continue talking about my favorite subject—food. I wanted to discuss an article that just came out recently. Oh gosh, I’m looking at the date and it doesn’t look as recently as I thought it was. Oh here it is, March 2015. There’s been a little bit of a buzz around it on my Facebook page with other colleagues. The title of the article is “Legumes and Meat Analogues Consumption Are Associated with Hip Fracture Risk Independently of Meat Intake On Caucasian Men and Women in the Adventist Health Study-2”. This is an interesting study. It was one of those things where they take big populations of people and they have them answer surveys every few years and then they try and glean some information about it. It is so hard and expensive to really find out what the ideal diet is and what the impact of different foods are on human health. We certainly are capable of consuming a lot of different things. If you look around the world people eat so differently. In this study it came out and said that hip fractures are reduced by 64% when people have one or more servings of legumes per day. That’s beans, my friend beans, all different kinds of beans. You can significantly reduce your risk of hip fracture by 64%. Next in line was meat analogues. That includes soy foods. They separated those from legumes. They found that there was a 49% reduced risk of fracture, say that quickly “reduced risk of fracture” compared to those eating it less than once a week. Eating meat as well showed a reduction in hip fractures compared to those who ate very little. The point of the article is saying that protein is important, plant or animal protein, even though plant protein fared better in reducing risk. I wanted to point out something that I felt was really important in the article and it’s not as obvious because the article also says that vegans have the highest risk of hip fractures. So I was confused, how can that be? If beans and meat analogues that are soy-based or wheat-based like seitan—praise seitan—how is it that vegans who are eating these foods can have a higher risk of hip fractures if they are indeed supposed to reduce hip fractures. This is where it gets confusing and crazy. I actually asked Brenda Davis, dietician. We’ve had her on this program before. She said, and I’m just going to read what she said, “This is not surprising as vegans had the lowest protein intake. The study is really showing that protein is important for bone health and vegans consuming more do better. It is also important to remember that the EPIC Oxford Study showed a 30% increase in fracture risk in vegans compared to non-vegetarians and lacto-ovo vegetarians. However, vegans consuming at least 525 milligrams of calcium had no greater risk than anyone else. Almost half of the vegans consumed less than that in that particular EPIC Oxford Study. The point is many nutrients are important for bone health include protein and calcium.” So vegans show many chronic diseases but when you want to have strong bones you’re going to need to get sufficient protein and calcium. We want to get calcium from food. You can Google “calcium in food” but there are wonderful foods that contain calcium and you just want to make sure you get a lot. That’s why I eat a ton of kale because kale is loaded with calcium. There’s like 100 milligrams per cup, give or take, I don’t know what exactly it is. When I have a big salad, which is about 6 cups of kale, I’m getting plenty of calcium. Tofu too especially when it is processed with…what is it made with calcium… I’m slipping here now but tofu can have a lot of calcium in it. Some raw nuts and seeds and beans are loaded with calcium. When you to stick whole foods, minimally processed—stay away from the highly processed foods—and you’re eating plant-based, then you’re a winner. I just wanted to bring that up in case anybody starts waving this in your face saying, “Vegans have high risk of hip fracture.” Not if we get enough calcium. And make sure that you do get enough calcium. The other piece of that is exercise because you can’t have strong bones if you don’t have strong muscles. They work together. That means running, jumping, playing, having a good time, using your body and moving a lot. If you’re stuck at a desk job make sure every hour you get up and move around or, if you can, work standing up for a period of time and then sitting down. Move, vary it, it’s important. It’s important for your health. It’s important for your bones.

I went traveling this week. I went to Chicago. It was actually for a memorial service so I can’t say that it was a fun adventure but I did make the most of it. I met up with a woman that I met in 6th grade because we were going to a memorial of a teacher that we had met when we were both 11 years old. We had both remained friends with him for the last 46 years. So while it was difficult mourning and grieving, I did get to re-connect with someone who I haven’t seen in 46 years. That was really fascinating for me. For a while we sat at an Argo Tea Store. Have you been to one of these Argo Tea Shops? One of the great ways to catch up with someone to sit and sip tea and that’s exactly what we did. It was a windy, cold day and we actually sat outside drinking our tea but what I love about Argo, the tea, is it’s like a candy store for me. They have so many selections of different kinds of tea all in bulk. You know how crazy I am when it comes to tea bags? I just don’t like tea bags. Occasionally I’ll have a tea that is brewed through a tea bag but I prefer not to. This place is all loose leaf teas. They had one of my very favorite teas that I don’t see very often, called maté latté, which is a maté tea if you’ve ever tried yerba maté which originates from Uruguay. It has a low level of caffeine. Some people call it mat tea from maté. It’s really a lovely tea. It just brought back so many memories. The first time I had it was when I was traveling on business to Burlington Vermont. I used to stay at this little hotel that actually had a vegan chef and this was in the late ‘90s, I think—very unusual, vegan chef, Chef Kevin Dunn. So the menu had some delightful items on it including maté latté and even though it has latté in the name, it’s not dairy milk although you can have it with almond milk or coconut milk. It’s really, really delicious. So that was a nice thing. The other thing I wanted to tell you about…again, every story has its bright side and its dark side. I was actually visiting a relative who is in the hospital for ovarian cancer. Since I had ovarian cancer back in 2006-2007 the least that I can do was be as supportive as I can, providing as much information as I can or just being cheery. I went over to Memorial Sloan Kettering, which is a big cancer hospital here in New York. I have to admit it’s not my favorite hospital. I didn’t have good experiences there when I consulted with a number of doctors. She showed me the menu and they had vegetarian and vegan options and a lot of them. The world is changing. I know this is New York City and it’s going to take awhile for other hospitals to follow suit but this is so encouraging. Isn’t it the craziest thing—you go into a hospital to heal, especially if you have cancer, and they’re feeding you foods that cause cancer, like sugar, like dairy, like pork—all these cancer-causing foods. Those are the things they want you to eat. It’s crazy. So the encouraging thing is things are changing and for those that want it, you can have it. That’s the importance of screaming and whining. Maybe not screaming and whining but at least speaking up and asking, politely is probably best rather than screaming and whining. Asking for things if you’re in a hospital. Asking for the foods that you want to eat and requesting not to be given the foods that you don’t want to eat. I remember even though I kept saying, “I’m a vegan and I don’t want these things” there was always a little dish of sugar and non-dairy creamer on my tray, no matter how many times I said I don’t want these things. So if we keep politely asking and requesting for the things that we want maybe…sometimes you have to step it up a notch and be a little more demanding, change will happen. You can’t be meek about this because it’s important. It’s important for our health. It’s important for our planet.

Looking at my notes here for all the things I wanted to talk about. I wanted to remind you again, I said I’m going to bring this up a number of times, if you haven’t seen my documentary The Lone Vegan Preaching to the Fire and even if you have seen it I hope you will go to cultureunplugged.com. If you need the link you can go to my website responsibleeatingandliving.com to get it. I’m clicking on it now just to make sure I get the right website here. It is to cultureunplugged.com. There’s this fabulous film festival. It’s going on until the end of the year. You could watch a lot of films up here. They’re all free. If you’re listening to Progressive Radio Network which I know you are these are the kind of things you are going to want to see. They’re from all over the world. If you watch The Lone Vegan Preaching to the Fire and rate it you can help us become a winner because we like to win or be a winner. We need to have more people watch it so the film that has the most people watch it gets a prize. So please help us out and check out cultureunplugged.com, watch our film, rate it too. That’ll be a big help.

The other thing I wanted to mention is I am now offering private coaching. I’ve done it for quite some time now but I’m being a little more public about it. If you’re interested in private coaching this is where I talk to you either by phone or by Skype and we discuss individual issues with food and get into a better place. I love doing this and I will be happy to call. You can go to responsibleeatingandliving.com and click on the right side and find out more about my private coaching program. I just found… I think it’s necessary, so I’m putting it out there. We cover a wide range of things. Some people want to simply eat more plant foods and don’t know how. People who are going through a health crisis, I bring my own personal experience because I had advanced ovarian cancer and most people don’t survive advanced ovarian cancer. Not only have I survived, but I’m thriving. Thank goodness. It’s not by accident, it’s because I dug deep. I did the research. I was fortunately connected with so many people in the alternative health movement and I put together a plan. I just want to share that with anyone who is interested and needs that kind of help. So there’s the private coaching program.

I also invite you to visit What Vegans Eat if you haven’t, one of the things I’m so excited about. I don’t know if you remember but I used to talk this restaurant in my neighborhood called Simple Veggie. We even did a video about them. It was really exciting because they’re a vegan Chinese restaurant and they came to my neighborhood almost two years ago. Then they were selling the restaurant, which was very sad, kind of meant that maybe they weren’t doing so well, I’m not really sure. They sold it to a wonderful group and now we have Green Zenphony. It is phenomenal. It is vegan Chinese. If you’re ever in the Forest Hills/Rego Park/Queens area this is a must visit for really wonderful, fresh, delicious food. You know that Queens is the number one travel destination for 2015 named by A Lonely Planet so if you have not been to New York City and the Borough of Queens I encourage that you do so and check out Green Zenphony. What was nice, I talked to the owner Wendy because I remember when she had a restaurant called Green Melody, which was on Long Island maybe six, seven, eight years ago now. Can’t remember how long ago is was, before they had that restaurant they had a restaurant called Green Symphony which was north of Manhattan, upstate New York. What she told me was they retired. Then people were basically saying, no you’ve got to come back. So they came out of retirement and now they’re right down the street from me. I can have these wonderful big bowls of veggie soup. If you go to responsibleeatingandliving.com and click on What Vegans Eat, Day 270 you can see these stunning pictures of soup with my favorite veggie duck which is made from bean curd skin and filled with mushrooms. It is so, so good. I was kind of actually encouraged. You know I like to eat a whole foods, minimally processed, plant-based diet and there’s some negativity surrounding these meat analogues for these people really on a health path. What’s encouraging from this article that I was just mentioning about protein and its effects on bones was a positive benefit of some of these meat analogues because they are high in protein they are good for bone health. So occasionally having a meat analogue, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. If you like it, enjoy it. It’s so much better than the other version, which is an animal that’s been slaughtered, right? I think so. I love talking about food and I’m looking at these pictures right now and I’m… no, I’m not hungry. I’m not hungry because before the show started I had some of that sludgy I was talking about before, these ground up collard stocks and kale stocks with a little peanut butter and cocoa powder and water, crazy little thing but very filling, along with lentils. You know sometimes I just like to cook lentils because they’re quick and I eat them plain. They’re fabulous. I don’t know, I just love eating this way. Simple, clean, good makes me feel happy. If you want to feel happy and eat delicious foods you can visit responsibleeatingandliving.com. We’ve got wonderful recipes or maybe you want to try the Eat Like You Give A Damn Cookbook. There’s some really fun recipes in there. I recommend them.

Other than that, please send me an e-mail info@realmeals.org when you get a chance. I’d love to hear from you. Ask me whatever questions and comments you may have. Don’t forget to watch our The Lone Vegan Preaching to the Fire at cultureunplugged.com. OK? Other than that, have a delicious week. Thanks for tuning into love. I’m Caryn Hartglass and you’ve been listening to It’s All About Food.

Transcribed by Suzanne Kelly, 1/29/2016

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